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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Hi,

I'm currently working as graphist for the french's shard Toria and, in order to work with Iris, I have few questions (for the moment ^^).
I'm a student in "video games" (graphist/level design), so I hope I could be helpfull to improve Iris models or to give some "cg artist point of view".

1_ I didn't find any documentation about Normal Mapping with Iris, I know that the Ogre Engine allow us to use that, but I doesn't know if Iris support/added that technology.
It would be great to reduce a lot the polycount of all the models, and did some great models.
Normal mapping (even know as "normal bump"), is far better than regular bump, and is use in UT3 engine for exemple.
As an illustration of what we can do with Normal Mapping: http://www.paultosca.com/makingofvarga.html
6000 triangles obly for the character AND the dog AND the weapon.

2_ Is it possible to "lock the camera" behind a character, like a World of warcraft style (I hate this game but... the camera is good :D)?
My admin doesn't like very much to play with the camera, but he don't like a first person view, so he bore me about that.

3_ hm... How old is the captain? :D


Thanks for the Iris team, your work is really amazing!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:28 pm
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Location: Munich, Bavaria, Germany
hi and welcome !

We haven't worked with normalmapping yet, so there are no howto's specifically for iris, sorry =)

To use normalmap-textures , a shader is needed to apply the effect, i don't know much about shader programming, but it should be possible to find such a shader somewhere, there should be one in the ogre samples/demo apps. Or do you already have a specific shader you want to use ?

I think some of the samples/demos included with ogre use normalmapping, if you're interested in lowlevel material options / finetuning, they're probably worth a look, there are binaries for them included with the sdk for win/mac i think :
http://www.ogre3d.org/index.php?option= ... Itemid=131
(you don't need to compile, so which compiler version is not important)
(you probably best use the 1.4.9 version at the bottom of the page, as that is the one we currently use in iris)

ogre has material definitions in scripts editable by any text-editor, you can find documentation about it here :
http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/manual/manua ... C_Contents

depending on what modelling apps you use, you can probably directly export these .material scripts together with your model,
there should be exporters for most modelling apps here :
http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/OGRE_Exporters
and here :
http://www.ogre3d.org/index.php?option= ... Itemid=133

due to the sub-optimal and complex animation system used by the human characters and clothing/armor, it's hard to replace them. Animals, monsters etc are much easier, you can find infos about how to replace them here :
http://iris2.de/index.php/CharacterModelOverride

a few infos about how to replace non-animated "static" models (furniture, walls...) :
http://iris2.de/index.php/Static_3D-Models
and here
http://iris2.de/index.php/Art
they're all in iris/data/models/ and subfolders

The models used by iris for characters and animals/monsters were not created by the iris team, but are rather loaded from original uo data (it had an official 3d client once, but abandoned), it's not possible to modify them due to legal reasons (copyright/owned by ea), but it's possible to replace models by completely new ones.

2. not yet, sorry. we'll add more camera modes and options as we find the time. (locked behind the char is a bit tricky, as it'd probably have to avoid moving the cam into buildings/trees/objects/etc automatically)

3. not sure what you mean ? what captain ?
if you mean the iris team : http://iris2.de/index.php/Team


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:33 pm
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Danke schön! (Ich bin better in Deutsch als Chinese, aber nicht gut).


1- Normal Mapping: thanks, I will see the shaders problems with one of my teacher who know a little about that kind of thinks.
If I find how to use Normal Mapping with Iris I will explain here "how to".

The aim of our server is to be free of the original UO, so we will replace all UO models with our own.

2_ No problem, we have the time, it's not the priority!

3_ It's a bad "french joke", don't worry, I just need to be stupid one time per day, for my ratio.


My work during the 4 first months of learning:
low poly car (3000 polygons), 6 weeks of learning:
- http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rendu03ay5.jpg
- http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rendu02cp9.jpg

very low poly environment to test light/fog:
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/4150 ... entuv7.jpg

test with normal mapping / mudbox:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6104/67621084mh0.jpg


It's so cool to have very fast answers!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:29 pm 
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Location: Munich, Bavaria, Germany
hi, took a little longer this time =)

i looked around a bit and the ogre/Samples/Dot3Bump uses normalmapping ( startable binary should be in ogre/Samples/Common/bin or so )

the material definitions are in
ogre/Samples/Media/materials/scripts/Examples-Advanced.material :
"Examples/Athene/NormalMapped",
"Examples/Athene/NormalMappedSpecular",

the shaders they use are in ogre/Samples/Media/materials/programs
i think they use the
Example_BumpMapping.cg

and the normal map used is here :
ogre/Samples/Media/materials/textures/atheneNormalMap.png


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:34 pm 
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Thanks a lot!!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:47 pm 
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Location: Munich, Bavaria, Germany
if you've found an exporter to the ogre mesh format for your modelling app, can you maybe send me all the files it outputs for a simple little example with normalmapping ? doesn't need to be anything wellmade, a simple box should do, just to see how it exports the normalmapping to material.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Hi Hermine,

There was a problem with our mesh normals (and so incorrect normalmapping) in former time, but i think hagish fixed this already.

Once upon a time i played around with normal mapping. i think i have an example on disk so i can send it to you and ghouly.

When i'm at home i build an example.

One question:

You want to redo all the 2d art, 2d gump stuff and all character, monster, animals with all animations?

uh. hard job ;-).

The best start would be to repaint the monster skins with higher resolution and add a normalmap+shader to it.

Once i played around with normalmapping of statics, it don't look good at all, because of the tileabled uo system.

Maybe we it's possbile to add normalmaps to the terrain/ground stuff. But only Ghouly knows this.

tip: parallax mapping is more advanced than normalmapping ;-). i have an shader for ogre at home.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:16 pm 
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I think there are a few things which would look good with normal mapping - the key would be making it simple to just add it via the material file per static. For exaple the walls and tiles of a castle would look quite good with some light normal mapping (i.e a lot of games abuse it to make things look too rich)

Ground textures should be possible, and I would be interested in this - tho my experience with shaders isnt amazing. The only real problem is that _all_ ground textures would require normal maps, else things would look a bit strange.

Another problem is performance, specially with paralax mapping, its just not worth the performance hit.

I like the idea for a few things, but I think it goes onto the backburner til we have things a bit smoother and performance problems have been looked at :)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:43 pm 
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Hey Hermine,

for you.

Reliefmapping for Iris2:
http://sience.schattenkind.net/shaders/ ... apping.zip

Bumpmapping for Iris2:
http://sience.schattenkind.net/shaders/Bumpmapping.zip

Put into the data\custom\ folder and edit the materials.


What relief mapping means -> http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~oliveira/RTM.html


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:53 pm
Posts: 63
Location: AL, USA
First off your work looks awesome and I think it would be great to have all custom models and item art so you dont need all the uo files.


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