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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:45 am 
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Alright great, now that I've snagged your attention.. I'd like to announce my (And my lovely lady's) efforts of a complete overhaul on the 3D graphics here.

Does anyone oppose of this?
.. Nobody?

So let's get to it then!

Our tools are:
Maya 2011 (Models/Animations)
Photoshop (Textures)
Faogen (Ambient Occlusions)
Dropbox (Cool stuff)

Give a hand to the character concepts!


I was actually going to use a preset model I found in your guys' archive for dimensions, but I decided to rework it a little bit.. Ended up actually completely deleting the original model and only using it for height.
Image


This is a little work-station scene I've created to just spew out models.
Image


An example of Ambient Occlusion and Faogen's awesome powers.
Image


Now onto actual props!

These of which were not only made by myself, but my girlfriend has taken this opportunity to work on her texturing skills. =]
Image

Image


...

We're constantly working on the art side, non-stop.. This has been two days now.
Most of this time was spent actually trying to piece together a proper pipeline for development.

This being said, we're slowing down due to the lack of information regarding implementation.
If anyone could please inform me on how Iris2 manages custom animations and non-static models, I'd greatly appreciate it.

We'll keep pumping out work day in and day out for this, it's not just for the people.. It gives us some benefits to learning as well. ^^
I'll try to post updates every night, I do however work 12 hour days on Thursday-Saturday's, Wednesday is a 6 hour day for me.. So I'll only really get about 2-3 hours to work on anything those days.

Looking forward to collaborating with you guys further and thank you for the support. =]
(A lot more to come)

Cheers~ Rai


Last edited by Rai on Sat May 07, 2011 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:21 pm 
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heya, thanks for posting here, didn't have much time on irc.

on anim models :

as already mentioned : iris/data/customchars/ is the folder where you have to place them.

if found another piece of the puzzle of how to get them to work now :

edit the file :
lua/filter/filter.granny.lua

and uncomment/edit lines like these :
Code:
26   --gGrannyFilter[153]    ={meshname="Lich.mesh"}
27   --gGrannyFilter[154]    ={meshname="mummy.mesh"}


( remove the -- at the beginning makes the line active)

to activate a custom mesh by filename.

you can find out the number (153) in front by the bottomline ingame : "bodyid" or so


animations will have to have specific names to trigger correctly, also bone names for hands are ciritical

@sience : do you recall the tool for viewing the original granny files ? their structure might be interesting for rai


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:26 pm 
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animnames : see uoml/Models/*.lst

anvil,backpack and the not-so-deformed barrel on the top-right look nice,
please upload to http://ghoulsblade.schattenkind.net/iris/upload.php if you find the time


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:16 pm 
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barrel could use more polys to look rounder


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:05 pm 
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I'm going to need as much information on animations as possible.
How I can call for animations, where the bones are stored, if items attach to each other through bones in an animation (Equipment), or if everything just has their own little animation that plays in sequence for a player.

As far as the barrel is concerned.. unless we have a mass of LOD's, that polycount is perfectly fine for the distance it will be viewed in.
We need to think of modular design and how this will effect the performance of everyone's computer. - A barrel is used in large quantities throughout the world, increasing it even slightly has a large impact on the performance and cluster polycount in a scene.

Hell, I'd even push to downsize it back to 6 edges.- And speaking of, can the client handle custom LOD's?

- In addition, I'd like to be able to create custom wall meshes instead of the on the fly primitive placements with textures.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:03 pm 
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In this pack you will find the old (very old) granny viewer.

http://prdownload.berlios.de/iris/Iris_ ... rk-0.4.zip

It's a little bit tricky to setup but you can view all original *.grn models.

I hope this helps.

>>handle custom LOD's?
custom lod's?

Ogre has a build in lod system. You can export different lod levels with your model. The Ogre Engine decides what level to draw.

btw. Great Models!
Now, we have exp. graphic artists for the Iris2 project :-).

Will you recreate all human grannys?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:22 pm 
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custom lod : ogre can generate lod levels automatically, but you can also specifically set manually tuned meshes for a specific LOD level.
see OgreXMLConverter and the related commandline tools for more infos.

Large quantities : you won't see more than a handful of them on screen, and 8 edges looks too far from round.
Realizing the rings with normalmap instead of polygons would allow making it rounder with the same polycount,
and they look too extreme/comiclike anyway.
see google image search : http://www.google.com/images?client=ubu ... den+barrel
the rings are usually rather flat.

In general i'd suggest making the models rather too high-poly than too low poly. Graphics cards get better every year, and it's far easier to reduce polycount using baking/normalmaps than to increase polycount of a lowpoly model afterwards.

About the models : take a look at how it is done in the grannymodels using some granny model loader. either see the one sience posted or try milkshape or look around the web, should be possible to find one, there you can see bone name, skeleton structure, anims etc..
For humans every equipment part has all animations, it's rather ancient technologie those granny models.
Our 3d engine would technically be able to handle a common skeleton and model parts with blend-weights to avoid the need to animate every different armortype individually, but you'd need a lua scripter to make this functionality accessible.

i'd encourage you to make a the important static models first before focussing on the animated characters :
http://iris2.de/index.php/Item_Model_List
The existing granny models might not live up to modern standards, but they are much better placeholders than some of the existing static models.
You'll need to do those later anyway, why not get them out of the way first ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Can I view the bones of those models?

And yes, we're absolutely re-creating everything from textures, to models, to animations and effects.. Maybe I'll get someone to re-create sounds and music so that we can have a fully stand-alone client.

The character model you see there is a quick modeling pass, nothing special just a basic character form with corrected size.
When I get some more time this weekend, I'll fully complete the Male and Female character models.

I'm straying from normal mapping, it's not right for the mass audiance we're going for (Which is free).. They tend not to have the most amazing computers, so to work on normal maps for each model would just be a complete waste of my time and acts as a filler.

I also realize having more than 8 edges horizontally makes a cylinder more round making it more susceptible to Normal Mapping, however.. Without normal mapping, we're going for pure silhouette here.

Image

My specialty is characters, so I'd like to get those done fairly soon.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:56 pm 
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So I'm going through the client, checking measurements.. And I see this.

Image

Any idea what's going on here? My guess is that the measurements for stairs and foundation tiles are actually supposed to be half of a wall block, but they're running short.

So what are the correct measurements, because I'm trying to finish this measurement toolset.

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:55 pm 
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Ah yes i know that.

U think that OSI build the space between foundation/stairs and floors wrong because of 2d. The floor has to be a bit lower, but than the wall are too high.

I think the house/houseground is an Multi, what means its prebuild in multis.mul.

In 2D mode you wont see the space between foundation and floor. But in 3d you see the space between. It could be, that OSI build this wrong, because they just don't saw it in 2d.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:39 am 
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So what exactly do you assume we do about it?

What we COULD do is re-measure these ourselves.. Raise the foundation tile meshes a little, as well as the stair tile meshes..

OR, we drop the houses themselves.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:06 pm 
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1.
Recreate the Multis.mul and distribute it to the shardusers.

2.
Do not use prebuild Foundations or Multis.

If you fix this issue with raising the foundation/stairs 3d tiles it might work for Multis, but not for other Houses on the worldmap that use this foundation- or stairs-tiles (other than Multis). But i'm not shure. You have to test it.


How do you want to share your recreated tiles?

Submit a whole new pack of Models, Textures and Materials? And exchange the existing ones?
Or put all in the custom folders?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:29 pm 
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I have absolutely no problem re-creating these if necessary.

If at all possible, I'd like to be able to compile the work, I don't completely like the idea of the files floating around in Custom.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:06 am 
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New barrel, I decided I'll just go ahead and up the graphical requirements since we can just do LOD's for those that can't run them.

My followed style for the project is mostly that of Diablo 3 and some other graphically similar games.

Image


Quickie before I head to bed.
Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:19 pm 
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scaling compared to human :
not sure what you mean by recreating multis, but there are a few problems with that :
a) downlocked decoration items
b) customized houses with player placed wall segments etc, these are used more than the few pre-defined multis.

also worth mentioning :
iris 3d-mode uses uo-zcoord-unit = 0.1 unit. we only realized this assumption was wrong when we implemented the 2d mode and using the 3d terrain renderer.
real value : kRenderer2D_ZScale = 4 * kRenderer2D_Inv44 / kRenderer2D_Sin45 -- zloc=1 means 4 pixels 0.12856486930664 (instead of 0.1)

This problem is one of the reasons why i want to switch from the existing .mesh files for wall-tiles to dynamic/code-generated ones, that would allow playing with the height as well.

how about scaling the human smaller in a uniform way to avoid distortion ?

barrels look a lot better now, nice mushroom also =D

normalmaps :
old hardware : people with ancient computers won't be able to run iris anyway, you can get a gfxcard that can do state of the art shaders for less than 100$, people who won't upgrade something like that for nostalgic reasons will stay with the original 2d client anyway.
Normalmaps allow using less polys without loss of detail, so imho they should be used wherever possible. But you're the artist, so you decide.


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